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	<title>Comments on: Bungie: Creative &#8216;sharks&#8217; can&#8217;t survive at Microsoft</title>
	<atom:link href="http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/</link>
	<description>Musings on strategic design by Kontra, a veteran design and management surgeon, perennially in search of complex problems to operate on.</description>
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		<title>By: Snafu</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snafu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not aware of any teams, period: Apple simply doesn&#039;t let them steal the brand&#039;s light anymore, so we don&#039;t get to know what&#039;s going on that much. Have you noticed how disemphasized Jon Ive has become PR-wise since the iMac G4 days, no matter the prices he wins? Avie Tevanian left Apple some time ago: is your chief OS architect leaving a sign of inability?

I don&#039;t deny getting borged is a real fear among small companies, but I still think you are being too alarmist about the Bungie issue (even more so regarding Softimage, which looked like a very utilitarian adquisition). For a start, we don&#039;t know the terms of the original adquisition: this separation could be something contemplated from the very start, subjected to timed revisions and such (given Bungie&#039;s nature, it seems logical to me that both parties would have accorded this eventuality by then: it was very clear what Bungie&#039;s mission was).

Once more, I&#039;d remit you to any current creative individual or team working at Microsoft currently being under the spotlight because of their projects becoming fruitful. When interviewed, they seem to be quite happy where they are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not aware of any teams, period: Apple simply doesn&#8217;t let them steal the brand&#8217;s light anymore, so we don&#8217;t get to know what&#8217;s going on that much. Have you noticed how disemphasized Jon Ive has become PR-wise since the iMac G4 days, no matter the prices he wins? Avie Tevanian left Apple some time ago: is your chief OS architect leaving a sign of inability?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t deny getting borged is a real fear among small companies, but I still think you are being too alarmist about the Bungie issue (even more so regarding Softimage, which looked like a very utilitarian adquisition). For a start, we don&#8217;t know the terms of the original adquisition: this separation could be something contemplated from the very start, subjected to timed revisions and such (given Bungie&#8217;s nature, it seems logical to me that both parties would have accorded this eventuality by then: it was very clear what Bungie&#8217;s mission was).</p>
<p>Once more, I&#8217;d remit you to any current creative individual or team working at Microsoft currently being under the spotlight because of their projects becoming fruitful. When interviewed, they seem to be quite happy where they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Kontra</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kontra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Snafu, there&#039;s a cost to MS&#039;s inability to acquire and retain creative teams. If you noticed, when MS acquired the ad company aQuantive recently, CEO Brian McAndrews was so suspicious that he demanded sole responsibility over direction and even technology. There have been tales of creative companies not wanting to be acquired by MS for fear of getting &#039;borged&#039;. There is also the obvious issue of MS perhaps not getting the most out of creative teams while they are there, which might be why they leave after a few years.

I am not aware of any &lt;em&gt;teams&lt;/em&gt; leaving Apple, BTW, are you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snafu, there&#8217;s a cost to MS&#8217;s inability to acquire and retain creative teams. If you noticed, when MS acquired the ad company aQuantive recently, CEO Brian McAndrews was so suspicious that he demanded sole responsibility over direction and even technology. There have been tales of creative companies not wanting to be acquired by MS for fear of getting &#8216;borged&#8217;. There is also the obvious issue of MS perhaps not getting the most out of creative teams while they are there, which might be why they leave after a few years.</p>
<p>I am not aware of any <em>teams</em> leaving Apple, BTW, are you?</p>
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		<title>By: Snafu</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snafu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But then, given the reasoning behind their adquisitions, of course it wasn&#039;t a true natural fit. That is a proviso, and it doesn&#039;t reflect on Microsoft&#039;s abilities at all: these were, in a way, exceptions to the rule. Did Microsoft need to retain them once their missions were fulfilled, at all? If not so, what would be the point in keeping them, specially if it benefits of letting them free so that they produce more value to the platform from the outside from then on?

And, anyway, are creative teams meant to stay forever in a given organization? Even Apple has some of their people leaving to try new things out there from time to time. Having a flux of people, teams, even adquired companies come, stay for a while and be fruitful, and go, seems fine to me. Microsoft is experimenting with several interesting technologies thanks to the existing creative teams inside the organization: that table computing thing, HD Photo, etc.

Not that one isn&#039;t aware of the internal criticism that arised from the Vista teams about team and project management and such, but it is curious to see how enthusiast about being there the people behind Microsoft&#039;s most creative developments of late are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then, given the reasoning behind their adquisitions, of course it wasn&#8217;t a true natural fit. That is a proviso, and it doesn&#8217;t reflect on Microsoft&#8217;s abilities at all: these were, in a way, exceptions to the rule. Did Microsoft need to retain them once their missions were fulfilled, at all? If not so, what would be the point in keeping them, specially if it benefits of letting them free so that they produce more value to the platform from the outside from then on?</p>
<p>And, anyway, are creative teams meant to stay forever in a given organization? Even Apple has some of their people leaving to try new things out there from time to time. Having a flux of people, teams, even adquired companies come, stay for a while and be fruitful, and go, seems fine to me. Microsoft is experimenting with several interesting technologies thanks to the existing creative teams inside the organization: that table computing thing, HD Photo, etc.</p>
<p>Not that one isn&#8217;t aware of the internal criticism that arised from the Vista teams about team and project management and such, but it is curious to see how enthusiast about being there the people behind Microsoft&#8217;s most creative developments of late are.</p>
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		<title>By: Kontra</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kontra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Snafu: &quot;I don’t know why you consider the Softimage operation a failure.&quot;

The article is really about the ability of Microsoft to retain creative teams within the organization, not about the success/failure of their respective products. Both Bungie and Softimage felt it necessary to leave MS and they did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snafu: &#8220;I don’t know why you consider the Softimage operation a failure.&#8221;</p>
<p>The article is really about the ability of Microsoft to retain creative teams within the organization, not about the success/failure of their respective products. Both Bungie and Softimage felt it necessary to leave MS and they did.</p>
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		<title>By: Snafu</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snafu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know why you consider the Softimage operation a failure. It was succesful at doing what I think it was meant to do: validate NT as a viable 3D animation workstation OS.

As for Bungie, it is the same thing: the Halo trilogy worked as the XBox flagship game. Now that the core of the franchise is finished and any related thingies can be delegated to other game companies&#039; programming teams, letting Bungie free is a valid decision: Microsoft won&#039;t get tainted if Bungie&#039;s next big game happens to be less than stellar, it will keep on getting Bungie games for their console, and will be a prefered partner for marketing and distribution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why you consider the Softimage operation a failure. It was succesful at doing what I think it was meant to do: validate NT as a viable 3D animation workstation OS.</p>
<p>As for Bungie, it is the same thing: the Halo trilogy worked as the XBox flagship game. Now that the core of the franchise is finished and any related thingies can be delegated to other game companies&#8217; programming teams, letting Bungie free is a valid decision: Microsoft won&#8217;t get tainted if Bungie&#8217;s next big game happens to be less than stellar, it will keep on getting Bungie games for their console, and will be a prefered partner for marketing and distribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Consumer markets: Time for Microsoft to exit? &#171; counternotions</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Consumer markets: Time for Microsoft to exit? &#171; counternotions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-96</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] might also be interested in these related articles: Zune 2: Mediocrity grows on trees Bungie: Creative ’sharks’ can’t survive at Microsoft The Hit Parade: Hollywoodization of gadgets     Posted by Kontra Filed in Apple, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] might also be interested in these related articles: Zune 2: Mediocrity grows on trees Bungie: Creative ’sharks’ can’t survive at Microsoft The Hit Parade: Hollywoodization of gadgets     Posted by Kontra Filed in Apple, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom B</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-67</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Sammy, as I said in my reply to James above, there’s a limit to how many beach-heads you can ‘profitably’ hold. &quot;

Exactly.

Game consoles: money loser. Windows Mobile: money loser. Zune, DRM etc: money loser.

Office: profit center, but has to compete with equal products that are free (OK, it has managed this SO FAR). Windows: profit center, but the margins are going south. Every time China or Brazil threatens to upgrade from Windows to LINUX, MSFT has to do VERY deep discounts. If American companies ever latched on the third world game plan.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sammy, as I said in my reply to James above, there’s a limit to how many beach-heads you can ‘profitably’ hold. &#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>Game consoles: money loser. Windows Mobile: money loser. Zune, DRM etc: money loser.</p>
<p>Office: profit center, but has to compete with equal products that are free (OK, it has managed this SO FAR). Windows: profit center, but the margins are going south. Every time China or Brazil threatens to upgrade from Windows to LINUX, MSFT has to do VERY deep discounts. If American companies ever latched on the third world game plan&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Kontra</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kontra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-61</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sammy, as I said in my reply to James above, there&#039;s a limit to how many beach-heads you can &#039;profitably&#039; hold. MS feels the need to defend so many areas they went into when they were better positioned to do so that today the fiscal and attention-span cost of holding many non-profitable entrees is pushing down MSFT.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sammy, as I said in my reply to James above, there&#8217;s a limit to how many beach-heads you can &#8216;profitably&#8217; hold. MS feels the need to defend so many areas they went into when they were better positioned to do so that today the fiscal and attention-span cost of holding many non-profitable entrees is pushing down MSFT.</p>
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		<title>By: Kontra</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kontra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-60</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, you&#039;re absolutely right, Microsoft&#039;s moves were largely defensive. But the question right now is, is this defensive posture worth the money? 

MS has similar attempts in search, advertising, online apps/services, digital music, etc. They are &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; paying off. They haven&#039;t been for a number of years now. The Street doesn&#039;t seem to think this is sustainable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, you&#8217;re absolutely right, Microsoft&#8217;s moves were largely defensive. But the question right now is, is this defensive posture worth the money? </p>
<p>MS has similar attempts in search, advertising, online apps/services, digital music, etc. They are <em>not</em> paying off. They haven&#8217;t been for a number of years now. The Street doesn&#8217;t seem to think this is sustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://counternotions.com/2007/10/05/bungie-creative-sharks-cant-survive-at-microsoft/#comment-59</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Xbox isn&#039;t about making money its about keeping another company from becoming a Microsoft-like company in the console gaming industry. If Nintendo hadn&#039;t kicked both MS and Sony in the pants with the Wii, MS feared Sony would take over the console gaming world.

Ironically, MS should have seen Sony&#039;s weakness when they conceded the personal music player market to Apple. Sony has lost its edge and isn&#039;t worth wasting almost a billion dollars a year over.


- James]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xbox isn&#8217;t about making money its about keeping another company from becoming a Microsoft-like company in the console gaming industry. If Nintendo hadn&#8217;t kicked both MS and Sony in the pants with the Wii, MS feared Sony would take over the console gaming world.</p>
<p>Ironically, MS should have seen Sony&#8217;s weakness when they conceded the personal music player market to Apple. Sony has lost its edge and isn&#8217;t worth wasting almost a billion dollars a year over.</p>
<p>- James</p>
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